Facebook Live Event 4: Plan For The Worst, Hope For The Best

Published March 31, 2020 Views: 5

24/03/20

Ed discusses scenario planning for different versions of an uncertain future, taking into account cost and reduced revenue factors.

To help your business navigate the COVID-19 crisis Employsure’s founder and Managing Director Ed Mallett is hosting live events on Facebook, to discuss the latest events, burning questions Employsure’s clients are asking and to offer business and management tips. At the end of every session, Ed will answer a few questions that come through the comment section.

 

Facebook Live Event 4: Plan For The Worst, Hope For The Best

  • Transcript

    Ed: Hi, everyone. I’m sorry for the slight delay there. Would you believe that through the challenges that everyone is facing right now, we’re currently trying to carry out an induction here at Employsure today across our five offices? We’ve got about 30 people starting today. It might seem like a nice problem to have amongst the chaos of what’s going at the moment, but it certainly gives us extra decisions that we need to make. We’re trying to keep that simulant and normality, so I was just speaking to the induction about who we are as a company, what it is that we stand for, and why we’re here. And it’s really highlighted, I suppose, by the last few days in what we’ve been doing for small businesses. it’s given me a great opportunity to communicate to this new group of staff about what our purpose is and that’s very much to help small businesses. I’m very proud of what we do here.

    And I was struck, I suppose, by the level of engagement we had yesterday. I think over 5,000 small businesses watched this yesterday. We received about 500 questions from you. I stayed late last night trying to answer some of those myself. We’ve got a team also answering them, so we’ll be reaching out to you with answers. Of course, if you’re Employsure clients, please also ring our advice line and get the help that you need through these difficult times. So, I was just thinking this morning about what I talk about today, reflecting on some of the questions I was answering last night, and there seems to be two buckets of questions. There were quite sort of granular stage one questions which is dealing with crisis management, in particular, are certain payments available to my staff if I do this, if I do that, and so on.

    And then there were some stage two questions around how to manage stand down if it’s available to you, how to manage redundancy, what are the alternatives? I don’t want to make my staff redundant. So, it felt like a deep dive into those, but then I realized I was probably contradicting the advice I was giving to myself as to how I’m trying to manage through this, which is every time I have a meeting with my team that is dedicated to working through this crisis, we start meeting by essentially reminding ourselves of why we are doing this. What is the purpose of our management or leadership at this stage? And that is to manage business continuity throughout the COVID-19 crisis. And then we remind ourselves of what our strategy is, which is how are we gonna do it, and that’s to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

    Only then do we start asking more tactical questions about what are we gonna do like, you know, do we need to reduce costs in any way and whatever else it may be. So, I thought what may be more useful today would be to try and take you guys on some of that journey as to what we are doing right now today in the business because it might help you answer some of those questions in a better way than perhaps it was being thought of and what I could see from some of them coming through last night. I don’t mean that as…hopefully, it isn’t unfair criticism. What I mean really is this, is that I think a lot of people are jumping to questions like, do I stand people down? Do I make them redundant? Do I do this, do I do that? In reality, the question you should be asking yourself is, what does my business planning overall look like for the next one, three, six months?

    And what are the consequences of those potential outcomes over that period? And you start needing to do what you all know as being called scenario planning through your budgets. And you’ll be already or would have already been in some form of budgeting cycle with the new financial year coming up next month in New Zealand, in three months in Australia. So, you’ll already have been thinking about how your business was going to do over the course of the next year. Now, that’s being thrown into turmoil, I get that, completely thrown into turmoil. Through that turmoil, your job is to lead through and try to work out how to manage your business. And you do that by planning different scenarios. So, I can’t speak individually to each of you. I don’t know your businesses inside out, I don’t know where you derive your revenue. I don’t know where you were on the growth curve or whether you were already struggling in terms of your growth and this has caused extra problems. But what I can do is tell you what we’re doing here.

    So, for the coming year, we had a budget which was developed before the COVID-19 crisis and I assumed that we would do X amount of new business underpinned by another amount of existing business, and that we would need a certain amount of cost in order to deliver that including staff costs. What I’ve been working with my finance guy on here is a series of scenarios that basically say, “Okay. What happens if that equals zero sales for a month? What happens if we do zero sales for three months? What happens if we do zero sales for six months?” That’s the worst-case scenario that we’ve worked on at the moment. And then we’ve done degrees of that, okay.

    We do zero for a month but then after that, we pick up by 50% and maybe 75% after six months, and different versions of it. And we’ve played that out against our existing cost base. Then what we have done is looked at that cost base and said, “Okay. If we’re making that amount of revenue in each of these scenarios, which of our costs can go quickly?” Some of those will be projects that we have put on hold, things that we wanted to do that we’re just not gonna try and do now, they’re pretty easy to sort out. You haven’t committed to anything, you’re not having to step back from anything. Others will be costs or contracts that we have for the business with suppliers that we’ll start to look at the terms of. I’ll reinforce what I said yesterday. I’m not in the business of trying to delay those payments or anything like that, but I will look at those costs and see what our contractual obligations are, can they be scaled back? Can I scale them back and still achieve the more limited business ambitions that we have for the next one, three, six months?

    So, those are the first steps in the process I’ve taken. And you’ll notice that, so far, I’m really probably giving you a somewhat patronizing lesson in business, which you all are as good as I am at that. So you don’t really need my views. To strengthen the point, I’m only telling you what we’re doing. It’s not necessarily right, it’s just what we are doing. But what I haven’t mentioned so far is anything to do with stand down, redundancy, agreed-unpaid leave, any of the options that might be coming out. And that’s because I get to my staff cost last, that’s a choice I’m making. It doesn’t have to be your choice. You might go to your staff cost in the earlier stage than looking at your other costs.

    But for us, we have a skilled workforce that we’ve invested a hell of a lot of time in training. We don’t want to look at contracting that workforce. We also have the operational problem. We’re actually on a service side busier than ever. We’ve got people calling up, needing our help. So, we received somewhere close to 4,000 phone calls yesterday from our client base. There’s a huge volume of calls that we’re desperately trying to keep up with at the moment. So, we’re having to actually get some temporary labor in to support that, triage phone calls and so on.

    But let’s assume that I’ll get no new business for either one month, three months, or six months. If that’s the case, I might see various aspects of the business, end up with people with less work to do, and those are real business decisions I haven’t yet discussed with the business but I will need to consider it as possible options during that time. If that happens, that’s when you start considering your options. And as someone said in one of the comments yesterday, redundancy should be a last resort. Absolutely, it’s a last resort. It’s a last resort for a couple of reasons. One, because of the terrible impact that it has on people in your workforce. These are people who I’m very conscious in small business, have really dedicated themselves to you taking the risk for working for your business as they have for mine and you’re loyal to them and you want to look after them. They feel maybe part of your business family. Just on that, a slight tangent. But remember, you’ve really, as a business owner, you’ve kind of got to wear three different hats at different times, and they’re not always the same hat.

    And the first hat might be your hat as a business owner. Maybe you’ve got investors, partners in that business. So, you might not be alone in being a business owner. So, there’s a chance your commitments or obligations as a business owner differ from those under your second hat, which is your hat as a family person. You will have commitments and perhaps have a family, but you have financial commitments even if they’re just to yourself, that you also need to look at protecting as well. Then the third hat is your hat as an employer. And that hat is looking after the people that work for you. But you’ve got to be very, very careful at this time, and please don’t take this as me saying that you should jump to wearing hat one or two at the detriment to your employees. That isn’t my personal approach to business. But you do need to question, in the context of the cost of your business, what your obligations are to your staff when you relate that to your obligations as a shareholder, owner of your business, as well as the owner of your personal responsibilities.

    And I’ll try to explain a little bit more about what I mean by that. If you think about it on a very basic…I’m not a corporate lawyer, but on a very basic understanding as a director of the business here and my understanding of the Corporations Act here in Australia is that my duty is to the business first and foremost, duties to the shareholders principally. So, if you have costs in your business, regardless of whether they are people costs, and those costs aren’t required because of the downturn in business, you wouldn’t be adhering to your duties as a business owner if just out of sentiment you were keeping people on. There needs to be a better reason than just being a good person to keep those costs maintained in your business, whether or not they are staff. So, start thinking of it with these three different hats. And you’ve got to work out what your priorities are, where your conflicts are, where the inconsistencies are between your hats.

    You may have particular family circumstances which trump the other two hats that you need to work out, maybe you’ve got dependents. You’ve just got to make sure you protect them during this time. So, you all have your own stories to how you’re doing that. What I’m trying to do here in wearing those three hats is this, is I’ve got my personal circumstances. Fortunately, those align pretty closely with those as a business owner. I have investors and shareholders in the business that, fortunately, our interests align at this stage. And those interests are to keep this business running as well as it possibly can throughout the COVID-19 crisis. Those of you that heard the earlier bit will recognize that has been what I’m starting every single crisis meeting I have at the moment with, why are we here? We are here to run this business as continuously as possible throughout the COVID-19 crisis. So, that’s my family and my shareholder hat, my business owner hat. It aligns in that regard.

    Then I have my duty to my employees. And at this stage, fortunately, they align as well. We’re busier than ever. I need more employees than ever to help me out with that. I may be able to, if that goes the other way, I may be able to maintain an alignment between those hats to be able to say, “Look, I’ve invested all this time in those employees. They’re very hard to find, these employees. We want to maintain them through any down cycle, even if work starts to slow down because we don’t wanna lose them and have to re-recruit when this finishes. And it will finish and we will come out the other side, so we want to maintain our workforce in order to do that.” Those are decisions and questions that I’ll need to be making, as well as considering what the other positions are so that I can make proper decisions that are evaluated fully.

    So, there’s my call to you guys to say don’t rush to questions of is it a redundancy, is it a stand down, is it unpaid leave? What are the accrual obligations during that? Blah, blah, blah. They’re all valid questions, don’t get me wrong, and I’ll answer some of them now, but really start to think hard about that planning cycle. What’s gonna happen to your business preparing for the worst, hoping for the best over the next one, three, six months? Look at your first level of costs then look at your employee costs and what you need to do with them. You could do that all pretty quickly. I’m not saying that takes months of planning, but you do need to go through that, I suppose, process, mental process to ensure that you’re doing things the right way and not just panicking and making decisions at this time. So, let’s see. Stu, have we got any questions coming through?

    Stu: Yeah, some quite specific. So, let’s start with that one. Is there… This has been asked a few times, Ed. Is there an Employsure stand down template?

    Ed: Yes, there is. Our advisers will help our clients through, and assuming that’s coming from a client, will help through our advise line with any specific policies for dealing with stand down. Also, if you’re not a client, have a look at the employsure.com.au/coronavrius web page. There’s a number of resources on there, I believe including a template policy, which you can have a look at. There’s also lots of detailed information on the very specific process of affecting a stand down and how you do that. And just staying true to my advice earlier, make sure you’re only going through with that stand down process if it is the right thing to do for your business having gone through the arithmetic, the business planning I just suggested.

    Stu: Hypothetical question, if there is a government lockdown ala UK, are my staff automatically considered unemployed and therefore able to access any benefits?

    Ed: So, a really good question. I’ve been looking at the UK stuff this morning wondering whether our government will go there any minute now. I think they’re in a COAG meeting and they’re gonna come out in Australia and let us know what’s going on. Just as a slight side I hope there’s a bit more bloody consistency than they showed yesterday with the states. New Zealand rushed to a decision yesterday. Having sung New Zealand praises internally for their level of management and calm that they were showing, they escalated yesterday from quite a stable process into full crisis mode yesterday. As some of you listening might have experienced, we certainly did with our staff in New Zealand. There was a real lack of communication and basically what they went into is a complete shutdown, meaning that all but what they are calling “essential services” over there, that has a specific definition, can no longer work.

    So, let’s assume for a moment the UK is going to something that looks like that overnight. So, basically, you’re not allowed out of your houses in the UK. As I understand it, you’re allowed out once a day for exercise and also as irregularly as possible to go out and get supplies or medical attention. But the consequence to that is unless you can work from home, you’re not working. So, what does that mean for businesses? Unlike the situation here yesterday and the situation in Australia as it stands where certain industries have essentially been shut down with stoppages, which lead to stand downs, that suddenly creates a situation where a lot of businesses that cannot do their work from home are potentially in a stand down sitaution. So, they have a stoppage that could not reasonably have been controlled by the employer and a stand down situation arises for a much broader group of businesses.

    I’m seeing some data that says about two-thirds of businesses couldn’t operate in an environment where everybody had to be at home. So many of the questions I was answering last night from businesses like construction, health and beauty industry, neither of those two industries can really run from home. Maybe you can run a salon at home, but if you go to the UK-level, they’re saying you’re not allowed to speak to anyone other than the people you live with, so you can’t draw people into your own to carry out beauty treatments, for example.

    So, the short answer, will people essentially become unemployed as a result of that? You still have to go through the process of whatever the next steps are. You need to be doing your business planning quickly. How long will this go on for? What does that mean for my sales and revenue? What does that mean as to what I need to do with my staff? So, that may mean, for example, standing them down. It may mean making redundancies. It may be making it clear to casuals that they don’t have any further shifts. Those are the sort of questions you’ll go through, but it doesn’t…the government announcement itself doesn’t cause that to happen. You still need to own the situation and communicate it to your employees better than ever, frankly.

    Stu: What if in a small business, the employees decide to take their entitlements all at once and the business cannot afford all those entitlements?

    Ed: Good question. So, in a small business, if an employee tries to take all their…or the group of employees tries to take all of their entitlements at once and the business can’t afford them, then situation runs like this. First of all, you need to gather evidence to say that you can’t afford them. For example, the entitlements that might arise for permanent staff are annual leave that needs to be paid out, notice that they would need to work, and potentially long service leave, those sorts of things. So, if you’re saying essentially, “I can’t achieve my wage bill on that,” it may be that you need to carry out a redundancy process prior to that. Alternatively, you’d need to seek relief from the government to say, “Look, I can’t meet my employer obligations. Those employees essentially become creditors to the business and, in essence, they could apply to wind up the business for what they’re owed, subject to the wind-up rules that were announced here in Australia or the reduced wind-up rules.”

    I think the rule is now that you need to be owed at least $20,000 before you can apply to wind up a company. So, that may also be a complex situation. In truth, our advice there would cross over now or, hopefully, complement what your accountant is saying, and you need to go and speak to your accountant about that.

    Stu: Somewhat associated question, what is our obligation to employees during a lockdown if they cannot physically work from home?

    Ed: During a lockdown, if they cannot physically work from home, this is quite an interesting one. So, essentially, what the government has required is that they go home. The consequence of which is that they cannot work. So, in essence, you could go down the stand down procedure. There’s been a stoppage of work. But, alternatively, what you would be saying is that you’re essentially being forced on unpaid leave, the government is saying that you cannot work because you can’t physically turn up and do the job and you’re consequently on unpaid leave. So, the recommendation from me would be to effect a stand-down for them because there’s been a stoppage outside your control. Because what that does is enable them to go this Newstart program where the government has been cleared that, if you are stood down, you potentially qualify for Newstart. Where they haven’t been clear is if you are on unpaid leave. That, they’re not clear as to whether you do qualify from Newstart at this stage.

    Stu: If an employee refuses my offer of reallocation of work or relocation, what are my options?

    Ed: So, essentially, what you’re doing. So, if you’ve said, for example, an employee, the question was if an employee refuses options of reallocation of work or relocation, what are my options? If those offers are reasonable, if you’d step back from that context, really what you’ve been doing is consulting with your employee as to alternatives that are available to them pending an outcome that may include redundancy. So, as long as you’re communicating well as the fact that, “Hey, this is the consultation process. I’m asking you if you’ll do this in order to avoid this.” The same goes, by the way, for talking to employees about things like reduced hours or sharing hours or four-day weeks or any of the potential alternatives to redundancies. If they refuse or, to put it in another way, don’t agree to those changes, then you start to look at redundancy if that’s the cost-saving measure that you need to put into place in your business.

    Stu: Is it legal for two co-workers to travel on the same vehicle to work?

    Ed: Great question. I answered a few of these last night and it really made me think about it. We’ve talked this morning as a company about our company policy on this. The presumption is that two works in a car are not more than one and a half meters away from each other so they’re not carrying out social distancing. So, our position on it is this, is that social distancing is not strictly legally enforced at this stage. So, the first question is can I do this work, if I’m still allowed to do this work? So, let’s think of a landscaping business, for example, I saw a few of these. Can I do this work in another way? Can I send them separately? Can one of them go by public transport? Do they have two cars? Try and do alternatives. If you can’t and the people need to be in the same car or…together then our position is that you’ve done all that is reasonably practicable to affect social distancing.

    And the fact that they’re in the car for a period, you should still do things like handwashing, attempting to giving them instructions as to how not to spread germs between each other as far as possible, but you’ve done as much as you can in that situation. We think practically about this. I was walking down the street this morning, people were walking well within one and a half meters of me and no one was arresting them for that. So, people are trying to be reasonably practicable in this situation.

    Stu: Based around some confusion yesterday around the foreseen length of time for the shutdown of non-essential services, which occurred yesterday. There was mention of six months and then it was retracted. Do we have any clarity around the potential length?

    Ed: So, just to clarify, the question was confusion around non-essential services shutting and for how long. So just to clarify quickly. As it stands in Australia, that “non-essential services” tag is the wrong one. It was just certain industries that were closed yesterday, the full list of which can be found on the prime minister’s website. That includes gyms, restaurant, and cafes, except for takeaway, pubs, hotels, and clubs, except for accommodation, places of worship. I may have missed some there, so please do check those. So, it’s not a non-essential-services lockdown at the moment, that may change today. Keep your eye out for that. It may be changing as I speak. How long will that go on for? There’s a lack of communication on that, to be honest. There’s no strict ruling on that at the moment. I’ve read an article in the paper, as some of you will have done today as well, that said, maybe in six weeks we’re back to some semblance of normality. I read another article in the paper today that Italy seems to have peaked and is now going downhill in terms of the number of new infections, which seems to suggest the good news that a lockdown can work in that way. Have we caught it quickly enough? I can’t answer any of those questions unfortunately, I’m not a medical expert. All I know is that you’ve got to prepare for the worst. And so, that for us means one-month, three-month, six-month scenarios where we may do zero new business. That’s what we’re planning for. It’s not what we’re experiencing at the moment, but we’re planning for the worst and hoping that something better happens.

    Stu: Regarding a lot of gyms taking their training outside, what are the WHS issues around training of groups outside?

    Ed: Great question. I had sort of an amazing day yesterday. I’m a bit of a keen exerciser. Not really good at it by the way, but I do like doing it. And it’s a very important part of my routine to maintain a clear head here. And I was thinking, “How can I carry on exercise? The gym I go to is shut.” I started thinking about outdoor exercise. And right now, a number of gyms seemed to be pivoting and offering outdoor exercise. They maintain the same health and safety obligations that they word in an inside environment. So, if they’re taking weights and mats and other things out to outside environments, be very careful of that. Be conscious of any new risks in that environment. So, keep your wits about you as a small business owner doing that. Make sure you can maintain the safety of your clients but also your staff. Be aware.

    I spoke to the gym owner of the gym I go to and he wasn’t gonna pivot to outside because he’s frustrated with the communication. He’s just worried it’s gonna change again in the next 24 hours and he didn’t want to spend a lot of time on it. I don’t wanna be a doomsdayer. I hope that those businesses that have pivoted can carry on doing that, but be conscious of any changes in that as well.

    Stu: We might have touched on this yesterday, but it’s worth revisiting, I think. A direct question, if an employee cannot be at work because of school closures or impending school closures, what are the options of my payment to them?

    Ed: If an employee cannot be at work because of school closures, what are my options paying to them? So, your employees, assuming they’re permanent for a moment, not casual [inaudible 00:27:55] second in Australia. Your employees, permanent employees in Australia have access to paid care as leave for up to 10 days in any one year. That may have accrued over the course of their employment beyond the 10 days. But they can only access that in direct reference to the school closure for an emergency that has occurred. And the emergency maybe the school closure, the query then how long that is an emergency that couldn’t be foreseen as is the requirement. You know, after day one of the school closure, it’s pretty foreseeable that day two it’s gonna be closed. So, you need, as an employer, to work out how long you are going to judge that to be an emergency situation.

    There’s no rule book on this and how long you’re consequently gonna make paid care as leave. We here are saying five days and then we expect you to have got your staff sorted out and got alternative arrangements in place. You may choose to stay shorter or longer, that’s up to you, but I’d say at least a day. The second part of that is casuals who have access to two unpaid care as leave days. So, they may well say, “I can’t do my shift tomorrow because of this.” And that you would be under statutory obligation to provide unpaid care as leave. They have it but you can expect them back once the emergency situation is no longer unforeseeable.

    Stu: Another specific question. We employ contractors as well as permanent employees. Do we have to stand them down before we stand down any permanent employees?

    Ed: There’s not a strict order so far as I’m aware. I’m gonna check that and I’ll answer directly if I’m missing that, but there’s not a direct requirement that contractors who are ultimately just suppliers to your business if they’re true contractors need to be dealt with before employees. My business processes I’ve just been through, we will be looking at all of our supply costs before we go to our employee costs, and we’ll be looking at it in that way. But if those contractors can’t reasonably complete the contracted work because of any shutdown, then you need to be looking at the terms of conditions of your engagement with them. It may actually be quite expensive for you to stand them down unless there are clauses in the contract, what’s sometimes called a force majeure clause, which enables you to stop payment and maybe that you’ve got obligations to carry on payment in circumstances even beyond your control. So, you’d need to look at that on a case-by-case basis.

    Stu: Is there an elevated level of concern around pregnant employees?

    Ed: There is. I’m not a medical expert, again. And to ensure an abundance of safety for those employees here that are pregnant, we’ve sought to get them to self-isolate and work from home as soon as we could. I believe that is over and above the government advice, but we’d simply taken the extra measure of caution for those people. I have not seen any advice which says pregnant people cannot work, that they are forced into some form of self-isolation, but I’ll doublecheck that as well.

    Stu: This is an encapsulation question. If we actually do reduce the amount of days of work with our workforce and so far down this route, do we have to reissue new contracts?

    Ed: What you would do there, I certainly encourage you to put it in writing. And this is the sort of thing we do for clients would be drafting a contract variation letter, which is essentially…it wouldn’t need to be a long one but it’s a short letter saying, “As per our conversation on X date, we have agreed that you will move from five days to three days until further notice,” or something along those lines. And you’d get the employee to sign that to confirm their agreement to it because you want to have written confirmation of any variation contract terms.

    Stu: How does the COVID-19 subsidy apply to apprentices?

    Ed: Good question. I saw this one last night actually. Being frank, I need to chase up on this today to get a really good idea of it. The question that came through…I hope it’s not the same person who didn’t like my answer last night, but I’ll have a check…the question that came through yesterday was, “I get a grant essentially or a subsidy for employing an apprentice. What happens when I submit by BAS? Do I also get the COVID-19 subsidy through my BAS statement?” And the truth is I don’t know that at the moment. I’ll need to understand it. This is so fast-moving that my advice last night was, “Look, submit your BAS return and you might use your bookkeeper to do that. And if you do go through that process, see what the government says in response. And if they don’t give you subsidy then look and challenging it,” would be the most logical way of doing it. But I’m not aware of specific advice because it’s so far and fast-moving that says you cannot get it if you’re already getting some sort of subsidy or grant for an apprentice.

    Stu: We have a new starter starting in two weeks’ time. What are the legal ramifications if we do not proceed?

    Ed: Great question whoever that was. A really prominent one for employers at the moment. So, the situation technically is that if you’ve got someone that has agreed to a contract and you have sign written terms saying they will start on X date, and you decide to essentially terminate that contract before it even begins. You would be due to pay them whatever notice period, either the contract or the Fair Work Act requires of you following that. So, at a minimum it would be a week’s notice, checking on your award and so forth to make sure there’s nothing different. So, technically, you would say, “Hey, we can’t start you. Here’s a week’s notice.” In response, most people in practice, if I’m honest, and this happens a lot regardless of this crisis, would withdraw the offer. And the employee would be out of luck in terms of starting that work, but you would technically have a potential liability, but it does happen the other way around as well, in better times particularly, where employees withdraw from things they’ve already signed and normally people see that as just a speed bump in doing business.

    Stu: Just a general one regarding standing down and a stand down, what is the link of time for a stand down before something progresses on further from that?

    Ed: Yeah. That is a really good question. In principle, the stand down is meant to have an end date, which is impossible to give at the moment. So, what we’re advising best practices is to give end date subject to review. So, we haven’t stood people down here, but just for the purpose of working from home as well, which is a similar principle, we’ve said, “you will be working from home until at least the end of March and we will review that this week.” We’re gonna have to review that in order to give further advice as to when that will be, and it will be the same with the stand down. You’d say, “You are stood down until at least X and we’ll notify you should that situation evolve.” So, we’ve been going for a while, about 40 minutes now. I’m conscious, I can still see a flood of questions, which I’m very, very grateful for.

    We will, as yesterday, get to all of those as the course of the day, so bear with us while we do that. I’ll see if I can answer some of those questions myself. Again, thank you very much, your continued interest here, guys. If there’s anything that you want to hear more broadly about as to what we’re doing here and how I’m managing the business, how I’m communicating the staff not just the technical stage one questions around what specifically to do for certain instances, then let me know and I’ll try and focus on those things tomorrow. But I will see you, I hope, tomorrow. I can see some familiar faces or names popping up here that I was speaking to you last night online. I look forward to seeing you all again tomorrow. Just a reminder, resource there on employsure.com.au/coronavirus. Welcome any requests for any extra information you’d like to see on there as well. Thanks very much for your time, guys, I appreciate it.

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